Yes, hello to people of Sydenham: we will all of us experience transition and we will all need to practice resilience.
my comment:I have been assuming that we must expect our standard of living to change in a way that most people might call 'reduced' ; but I heard someone on the radio say that we must change our ways in order 'to maintain our standard of living'. Any comments about such different expectations?
Interesting points: expectations and standard of living! I recall a peice of research that states that beyond the level of meeting basic nutritional need, further increase in wealth ceases to lead to any greater sense of wellbeing. I may try and dig out a reference to it.
I think it would be a very bad thing to reduce nutrition of course, but could other changes heralded by peak oil be welcome?
A sense of well being is what presumably a good standard of living is meant to produce.However,the first seems to be interpreted as being more to do with the mind and spirit and feelings and the second to the body and material comfort and therein lies the confusion. A difficult question, John! If we expand the 'nutritional needs' of the statement to include all Maslow's 'basic needs' I would probably agree with it, if wealth means material things measured by money. Beyond these basic needs, without which we really can't pause to consider higher things;it is mutual support, and use of popular values such as justice, kindness etc that will give us a feeling of belonging and well-being,rather than 'wealth'.Resilience must seek to provide basic needs, incuding safe water, but in order to do this we will have to decide on what we really need, and on supply and distribution of same - and, as seems to be happening a little now - we need to practice better methods of co-operation, communication, grassroots inclusion if we are to prevent hogging of supplies, battles and fear - and if we can do this, such changes will make better societies THAN WE HAVE NOW and therefore be welcome.
I'm commenting on John's interesting piece about clothing.
Water and cotton production, - I heard a comment on R4 yesterday that the production of instant coffee also uses an inordinate amount of water. Ditto many processes no doubt.
I know people can get depressed by continued revelations about 'our' wastefulness of which we had'nt been aware - but we we must know and hear the truth - tussle with it and find solutions.
I particularly like the way that the manufacturers Levi Strauss were invited into the discussion, (also Virgin Airways discussing planes and fuel with Peak Oil people.) Many contemporary companies resent being accused of being the bad guys all the time and some may be(maybe) prepared to talk if invited. Ditto the public sector - lets back up - and extol if we find them worthy - all the community gardens etc ideas that L'sham and London Mayor are projecting.
Slow (and small) can be beautiful, and can allow for organic, democratic growth, but of course can be misused in terms of delays etc.e.g. Empty houses and plots of ground.
About fashion - Am I right in thinking that our 'tailored' clothes, meaning that a simple blouse for instance is made of many pieces - are difficult to adapt and that second hand clothes shops have their (popular) place, but that if we are really talking fashion, which changes we need also to look at other aspects.
For instance, buying less clothes and more accessories, wearing aprons and overalls again, even at home, keeping the more 'tailored' ones for 'best', making new ones of renewable materials - sheep farmers can't sell their wool lately - in-house tailor? - fantastic idea!
Indian and African clothing consists largely of cloths draped and tied into shape. I think we want our traditional fitted clothes but we must think about the best ways of making and wearing them. I know of numbers of people well-heeled enough, who boast of finding great bargains from the charity shops, which add to their wardrobes, not the same culture as resilience culture!
I've never been fashion conscious so am not best to talk of this subject, but I love colourful hippie clothes -
I want to start a new subject now, about food digesters. As i wrote quite a bit in this space and lost it, i want to be sure this is getting saved since i signed into Google! If it is, i'll continue writing in this comment space(?) maureen
Ah, it is saved. Well, I'm interested in the disposal of cooked food and such material that makes waste material so smelly and revolting. Without this, material can be safely stored for collection in 2 or 3 weeks, in which case the room for storage would be the issue rather than the dangerous storage of food waste in domestic bins. Th wonderful Aarvaark only deals with waste from schools, hospitals, restaurants and such.
but how could local disposal be organised/ i have my own ideas, but would be interested to recieve any comments at this point.
Yes, hello to people of Sydenham: we will all of us experience transition and we will all need to practice resilience.
ReplyDeletemy comment:I have been assuming that we must expect our standard of living to change in a way that most people might call 'reduced' ; but I heard someone on the radio say that we must change our ways in order 'to maintain our standard of living'. Any comments about such different expectations?
thanks for your comment Maureen
ReplyDeleteInteresting points: expectations and standard of living! I recall a peice of research that states that beyond the level of meeting basic nutritional need, further increase in wealth ceases to lead to any greater sense of wellbeing. I may try and dig out a reference to it.
I think it would be a very bad thing to reduce nutrition of course, but could other changes heralded by peak oil be welcome?
A sense of well being is what presumably a good standard of living is meant to produce.However,the first seems to be interpreted as being more to do with the mind and spirit and feelings and the second to the body and material comfort and therein lies the confusion.
ReplyDeleteA difficult question, John!
If we expand the 'nutritional needs' of the statement to include all Maslow's 'basic needs' I would probably agree with it, if wealth means material things measured by money. Beyond these basic needs, without which we really can't pause to consider higher things;it is mutual support, and use of popular values such as justice, kindness etc that will give us a feeling of belonging and well-being,rather than 'wealth'.Resilience must seek to provide basic needs, incuding safe water, but in order to do this we will have to decide on what we really need, and on supply and distribution of same - and, as seems to be happening a little now - we need to practice better methods of co-operation, communication, grassroots inclusion if we are to prevent hogging of supplies, battles and fear - and if we can do this, such changes will make better societies THAN WE HAVE NOW and therefore be welcome.
Maureen
I'm commenting on John's interesting piece about clothing.
ReplyDeleteWater and cotton production, - I heard a comment on R4 yesterday that the production of instant coffee also uses an inordinate amount of water. Ditto many processes no doubt.
I know people can get depressed by continued revelations about 'our' wastefulness of which we had'nt been aware - but we we must know and hear the truth - tussle with it and find solutions.
I particularly like the way that the manufacturers Levi Strauss were invited into the discussion, (also Virgin Airways discussing planes and fuel with Peak Oil people.) Many contemporary companies resent being accused of being the bad guys all the time and some may be(maybe) prepared to talk if invited. Ditto the public sector - lets back up - and extol if we find them worthy - all the community gardens etc ideas that L'sham and London Mayor are projecting.
Slow (and small) can be beautiful, and can allow for organic, democratic growth, but of course can be misused in terms of delays etc.e.g. Empty houses and plots of ground.
About fashion -
Am I right in thinking that our 'tailored' clothes, meaning that a simple blouse for instance is made of many pieces - are difficult to adapt and that second hand clothes shops have their (popular) place, but that if we are really talking fashion, which changes we need also to look at other aspects.
For instance, buying less clothes and more accessories, wearing aprons and overalls again, even at home, keeping the more 'tailored' ones for 'best', making new ones of renewable materials - sheep farmers can't sell their wool lately - in-house tailor? - fantastic idea!
Indian and African clothing consists largely of cloths draped and tied into shape. I think we want our traditional fitted clothes but we must think about the best ways of making and wearing them. I know of numbers of people well-heeled enough, who boast of finding great bargains from the charity shops, which add to their wardrobes, not the same culture as resilience culture!
I've never been fashion conscious so am not best to talk of this subject, but I love colourful hippie clothes -
All for now,
Maureen
I want to start a new subject now, about food digesters. As i wrote quite a bit in this space and lost it, i want to be sure this is getting saved since i signed into Google! If it is, i'll continue writing in this comment space(?) maureen
ReplyDeleteAh, it is saved. Well, I'm interested in the disposal of cooked food and such material that makes waste material so smelly and revolting. Without this, material can be safely stored for collection in 2 or 3 weeks, in which case the room for storage would be the issue rather than the dangerous storage of food waste in domestic bins. Th wonderful Aarvaark only deals with waste from schools, hospitals, restaurants and such.
ReplyDeletebut how could local disposal be organised/ i have my own ideas, but would be interested to recieve any comments at this point.
Maureen